10:05:15 Like Should we get started
10:05:04 recording.
10:05:10 But I just connected.
10:05:12 We did yeah I guess what I wrote this lies announcing the change of rumor, and they forgot about it. I was, I was connected to the other one that.
10:05:29 Oh well.
10:05:28 Anyways, yeah welcome everybody to the CFO for meeting today.
10:05:34 We have a plentiful program with for contributions so I asked you know all the speakers to be mindful of the time because we really want to have time for questions and answers and discussion.
10:05:49 So let me quickly go through some introductory slides.
10:05:54 You might be aware that we recently had, you know, some bigger Snowmass events. Energy frontier workshop, beginning of September, and then about a month ago.
10:06:07 The Snowmass day to basically make the least start off the smell nice effort widely known to the community.
10:06:16 So, the timeline for the snow must process your pony also where is that the deadline for individual groups to submit white papers as in March.
10:06:28 But for us, you know, to be able to come up you know with a coherent and sort of consistently part for the, for our group, it would be nice to get, you know, feedback from the groups already earlier, like maybe in generally.
10:06:44 It's fine if you don't have finally sides you know updating numbers plots and so on, that's easy to do on short notice, but basically you know qualitative description of where you think you're going and didn't would be good to have then
10:07:01 we do also have you came out to help facilitate that draft report that is linked also under snow most adult page for our ear for for group.
10:07:14 And, you know, it's this is of course very preliminary but anything you think that's important to add there please let us know.
10:07:23 One thing we want to mention this.
10:07:26 As you may be aware this is close to me on collider forum in the Snowmass airport. They recently had a meeting where they are discussing revising the running scenarios for the meal on Collider.
10:07:43 The link to the relevant slide to see so if you go to the info page you will be able to click on it.
10:07:50 The essential features basically that they said for energies above, 10 TV.
10:07:57 Before there was some assumption that there would be some scaling of the luminosity with energy now the new proposal is basically to say well, higher than 10 inverse apt to bond, this may be very hard to achieve.
10:08:09 So let's take 10 and verse, or two one for any energy above 10 TV, including the 30 TV energy point that you know really some be considered also as one of the benchmarks for the energy frontier.
10:08:25 This is not officially decided yet, but you know we just want to let us know about that.
10:08:34 blindsided.
10:08:37 Finally you know about the communications channels that we have in, in the snow must process, you know the Slack channel that has not been really used by our group but if you feel like it's convenient to do let us know.
10:08:53 recordings for Dr B, they are on.
10:08:59 Now password protected. Unfortunately, I will again you know once we start, you know this meeting and I have a minute I will put the access in the chat, so that you know about that.
10:09:13 And our next meeting will be in two weeks from now.
10:09:18 We already have a number of people who are interested, talking there but if any of you are interested in presenting status reports, or just have open questions you want to discuss, please let us know.
10:09:32 Okay, that's all I wanted to say at this point.
10:09:36 Under any questions about that.
10:09:41 Yes mockingly
10:09:44 money Iris.
10:09:46 Quick question regarding you mentioned all the luminosity for the neon Collider, could you remind me what the latest consensus is what kind of indicate luminosity we should do for the SEC h 800 TV.
10:10:02 Oh, I'm.
10:10:20 numbers. Thank you so listen 30 but would be good. Thank you.
10:10:35 Wait, so
10:10:39 june june is still not here. Did you get any answer jumping from him by email. He said he was having issue to connect, so he would like to maybe shift show later as well.
10:10:51 Okay.
10:10:53 So, zt would you be ready.
10:10:57 Sure, sure I share my slides just
10:11:06 cozy. Yeah.
10:11:10 This is a summary. I'm actually two independent works from our side. So the first one is the measurement of the forward backward charter cemetery.
10:11:23 Attention creditors in the future, while the second one is the effective witness angle measurement at the CPC, I just merge them into one talk because actually they are somehow connected with each other, physically, so I'll go for the first topic here
10:11:43 so nice to. So they fold backward charger cemetery attendant riders.
10:11:48 Talking about the Julian process, rise the from the get actually cause me to breaking a describes the specialist symmetry is a relative a symmetry between forward and backward across section.
10:12:03 And for the backward is defined according to the custom data layer theta, originally is defined as the discussion on the angle between the incoming for me and the article you for me.
10:12:15 Well, I didn't cry there's since Kwok, before cuckoo Bart. I know how to get into the tables and they can have a sizable effect from self decal on radiation so we have a labels and cuties so to count for this theater is recalculated in the current software
10:12:34 frame.
10:12:36 Okay so, talking about AFP measurement, the first thing came up in our men, is to use a to determine the witnessing angle. Well I just listed the most important results from agent Riders of the witness NGO determination using FB with the first observation
10:12:56 in 2008.
10:12:59 Throwing temper john and Eric see.
10:13:03 So slides for a summary on the current status, the best precision of the WikiLeaks and go deeper mean I had to disable some last poll comes from lap slot and temperature on the uncertainty is around about pulling to triple 30, or so.
10:13:21 While for the RFC
10:13:24 expectation from the forum to period, like, 113 verse and bar data, the statistical uncertainty will be smaller than pulling the trigger or 20.
10:13:36 While the PDF on certainty modeling the initial state parks and tick box will be larger than pulling the trigger or 20, according to different kind of PDFs like PDF, CTQ, and MSC.
10:13:56 They are borrowing from point a trouble 22 point trouble 30. And we also have a smaller systematic systematic thousand different experiment or side.
10:14:01 If we expected. If we estimate the uncertainty for the future obviously Wish we can have more than 1000 the worse and more data collected by a detector like Atlas or CMS, which means we have have a larger acceptance.
10:14:16 Well we have even smaller statistical uncertainty, goes to, like, almost an individual level.
10:14:22 While the PDF uncertainty would be still larger our people is trying to reduce the pm uncertainty in this measurement.
10:14:29 But this is very difficult to do. Later I will discuss why
10:14:34 here one thing worth points out, is that the theoretical uncertainty of the week missing angle, based on the two loop corrections is very small is about five x 10 to minus five levels so if we're really want to have a very.
10:15:08 between experimental results and the theory calculation. We need to improve the experimental precision, to be like a comparable to the at least the to the to the Florida regulation so this is the long term goal for future determination of the weakness
10:15:10 angle, using FB
10:15:13 well so here the measurement, as the average seat will be dominated by the light Park initial state, which means you you bar and DD bar processes. Well, practically, the final state will be leptin leptin, including electrons and meals.
10:15:31 So this is uncertainty in the future will be very small. And the PDF uncertainty. Also, we could have some other QZD uncertainties.
10:15:41 These are dumb down certainties, even if the the future it could be reduced.
10:15:46 Well that means, in the future, the high precision measurement from one single experiment will be more important than having that artistic combination, because of two reasons.
10:15:57 The first reason is that since all these measurements in the future will not be probably will not be statistical dominated, so a simple combination between the experiments will not giving us a higher precision, compared to the single experimental one.
10:16:14 But combination does not reduce the PDF on Sunday does not reduce the systematics from experimental side.
10:16:20 But the second reason reason is that, considering we have very different acceptance from Atlas to CMS to add a CB.
10:16:29 That means will lay trying to combine the results of the witness angle determination, or we just simply want to combine the AFP measurement.
10:16:37 We need to have.
10:16:40 We need to have a lot of assumptions from sun model.
10:16:57 Since in the future. The precision measurement of AFP and the weakness the angle.
10:16:55 The Purple's is to to precisely tested the standard model itself, and to try and to have the clues for the potential effects of from beyond standard model of physics.
10:17:02 Because we know the effective weapon because angle is defined to be able to absorb any possible high order correction effect from potential new physics.
10:17:15 So, it would be less important, if we just combine different results. Understand model assumption.
10:17:23 Okay, so it's six well this is the most important thing I want to discuss is the hidden Kreider because fd is a special a cemetery we need to define the direction of parks and anticlimax, or we need to know which side of the beam comes clocks and the
10:17:43 which side of the beam Come, come into quarks well since the, I'd say is the protein project cider is completely symmetrical in the initial stage. So practically What do we do is we assume that the quarks comes from the beam which pointing to the same
10:17:57 with respect to the reconstruct disables and that basically means, we assume that statistically quarks from protein, little buttons crocs had have a lot more energy than the jukebox from protein.
10:18:16 So then we have the dilution effect that the, there are sizable other is sizable probability.
10:18:25 That's the violence clock has a smaller energy than the sequel, which means the observer the FBS the RFC is looted the value is a smaller is reduced, compared to the original fd value, talking about the electronic signature breaking.
10:18:42 On the one hand, it gives us difficulties in measuring FB or using FB to do some extra wicked measurement that like the witness angle.
10:18:53 But on the other hand, that means we can use AFP as the, as an independent observable to measure the protein structure, well as be as discussed that the data dilution effect that is the reduction from the original FB to the observer they fit well this
10:19:11 Well, AFP is discussed at the data dilution effect that is the reduction from the original FB to the observer the AFP well this is something about the relative difference between quarks and anticlimax at ACU value, like 100 GV, and a relatively small
10:19:21 acceleration of the PDFs. That is a very unique project structure information, which is not directly covered by other experimental results.
10:19:31 They're already there are already a lot of studies, based on whether we can use FB to make an observation on the product structure, especially for the things I discussed before the difference between Fox and Fox like you bar over you balance and the bar
10:19:50 or the balance. Well, for example this to pause this our simulation results using AFP in the PDF global eating well the FP is generated using response plus CT 14 Hydra to a corresponding to 113 verse Mark data, which means ultimate source ms run to.
10:20:10 As we can see, the blue bands in this to plots corresponds to the current PDF uncertainty on you bar over your balance and deeper overview balance from city 14 prediction.
10:20:21 Well the red band is the relative uncertainty after introducing EFT into the PDF global facing.
10:20:29 That means redo the PDF global featuring based on the CT 14 with the new data points coming from AFP, so we can clearly see the improvement of the precision for your power over us and the poverty violence, which is a good thing.
10:20:45 However, Just now I mentioned that improving PDF precision, or having the product structure observation using ESP is very difficult. Practically because the determination of the wiki missing younger using FB, and the observation on part of the project
10:21:04 structure from AFP is highly correlated with each other.
10:21:10 And this correlation is very difficult to be considered in the PDF global feeding feeding theory. So pervades the slides here, in the previous slides, the AFP is generated in the pseudo data, where the wig makes the angle is fixed to the value.
10:21:25 Same with the value we used in the PDF PDF Global Fishing as the center model assumption, or input.
10:21:31 So you see there's only a good improvement on the precision but there's no, there's no changes on the central value or prediction. This is a relative props.
10:21:43 However, if we consider the real case, for example, your AFP from a data could have a wig makes the angle value, different from the carbon the weakness angle.
10:22:00 By the way, using our theory predictions. Then the PDF operating procedure due to the correlation will absorb.
10:22:02 I mean really absorb the effect of the from electroweak sector, into the PDF observation, then gives you a very huge bias, like what we are looking at now.
10:22:12 So here we using FB in the PDF global facing but the FB is generated with the weakness angle value, different from the PDF global faking theory.
10:22:22 So this is the this is the bad thing.
10:22:26 Since this is very difficult to be considering the PDF global feeding, because not global thinking theory I mean global feeding strategy because PDF global facing uses extensive data experiments that data results from very old neutron current scattering
10:22:48 to nowadays TV level application. So it will be very. It needs massive work to have a unified calculation for your actual week modeling to treat the weakness angle as a floating parameter if we're really want to study the correlation between PDF and the
10:23:00 weakness angle in the global strategy.
10:23:03 So that's why I'm talking about a difficulty in this, in this way.
10:23:09 A better way would be trying to reduce this correlation at the other room, experimental observable label. For example, in slides nine.
10:23:21 In one of our recent studies we find out that the AFP to witness the angle sensitivity is dominated by the events around the tables and polarization mean very close to 90 gV.
10:23:35 While the FB to the dilution sensitivity is dominated by the Sacramento region in MS, and Lomas parts of the AFP spectrum, as a functional mess.
10:23:44 That means we can use the site around AFP with the ZOFB excluded in the PDF global feeding it could reduce the correlation, but remain large sensitivity for protein structure observation.
10:23:58 It could reduce the correlation, but the remain large sensitivity for protein structure observation. Well this is one way.
10:24:09 But in the last 10 we have even better results which is just the finished, I mean the study is just a finished, we find out that the wig makes the angle guards, AFP versus mass spectrum in the way, as if, like we see on the left applause me with a different
10:24:17 way makes the angle the AFP versus mass spectrum changes as a global shift, especially around the zip origin.
10:24:25 Well the dilution and covers AFP vs Matt mass in the way as the shape rotation, I mean it's just changing the shape.
10:24:32 So if we can use only the shipping formation, but of course we can have various ways to define what these are shaping information. But the key point is to remove the overall average AFP of the spectrum.
10:24:44 If we can use that shaping formation of ESP in the PDF reduce global fading. We can even further reduce the correlation between each other, and there were many large sensitivities for example in the right spots.
10:24:59 The red plot is the slope of AFP versus mess if you treat the FB vs mess as a linear type relationship around the table, we can feed for a slippery slope, with a linear approximation.
10:25:13 You can see the linear very, the slope value. I mean, for a very large range of weakness the angle of operation is almost a does not change. That means this part of information is sensitive to a PDF but very insensitive to the weakness angle, we can use
10:25:30 this part, to do the project structure observation.
10:25:36 Well this that has 11 is the example. So here we are listed in the first line, and the first a role.
10:25:43 That's the UVU bar over your violence, well for the second line is the, the bar over the violence. These two are what we already seen before, is the bias, by using FB for mass arrange in the PDF updating Oracle bullfighting well this middle one corresponds
10:26:03 to the US only surrounding region FBSX, excluding the zip origin evens.
10:26:09 Well the right ones are are are the operating results using the slope or using the shipping information.
10:26:21 Okay, so we are working on an even better way to dealing with this to deal with this correlation between PDF and the weakness angle or between PDF and the actual week.
10:26:32 But, I mean that that that is almost finished and maybe next time if we have chance, we can find another slots, so that I can report the latest results, but that's all based on the experimental observable label study.
10:26:47 But actually, the ideal way to, to solve this problem is from some other experiment, we can have a Wikileaks angle determination, precisely enough, and the PDF and the QC the independent.
10:27:02 That's one of the most important motivation that we want to have a measurement of the awakenings the angle in the future.
10:27:11 Electron positron Kreider like CPC, but of course. So it turned out that you have four minutes left.
10:27:16 I understand me.
10:27:20 Because I remember, I gave one talk on this a piece of a week before so.
10:27:28 Okay, so let me. Of course this is just a one of the motivation for for the make me single measurement I CPC.
10:27:36 So before I go to details I just want to say a big missing angle compared to other fundamental parameters in the actual big sector.
10:27:45 Steel rice with the worst precision from experimental side, so this is the most licked dominating limitation for our standard model electronics sector global vt, which is the essential would have to have improvements on the precision.
10:28:02 Well for see for CPC in the future we can have very large data simple. It should be like, 600 billions labels and even, you know, two years, plan, running around the zip origin, and it will be very low systematics compared to him crowd your measurements
10:28:23 for measurement at CPC, we can go for three important important, important topics. The first one is any way to have a very high precision. For the witness angle information around lipo improves the experimental results from 0.1% level to an order of magnitude
10:28:44 better.
10:28:45 The second one is we can have independent measurements from left and final states.
10:28:57 Ud lightbox final state and PC heavy Pathfinder states and the make comparison between them.
10:28:56 But the third one is, well, we can have higher energy
10:29:03 than the labels and mass polled region could agents to to really measure the effect of weakness the angle as a function of the crazy creditor energy hardens a portal so whether it has a value as we expected to go higher.
10:29:21 Well the feature obviously piece of management is that we can have very low systematics, the emergent mass is precisely controlled by the beam energy, which is not as well.
10:29:51 I don't either, because I didn't cry there's we need to really measure the leptin final like Final to the leptin energies in the detector and the reconstruct these labels and burn less well here we just need to control that by the beam energy.
10:29:48 The efficiency and the charge these edification rates can be others versus mole in the left hand side, left and final states, or can be precisely determined from data driven method email clock clock find those dates.
10:30:04 So this is the results, for example, corresponding to one of data taken relates to the east Tennessee isn't a minister of the CPC ringing.
10:30:15 For the left and final state of results and the peacock final study results for different trading energies.
10:30:22 As we can say of course we can have very high precision lipo region. Well, when the energy goes to lower part or higher parts, the sensitivity of the legend final states drops significantly but we can still have a very good sensitivity from heavy Pathfinder
10:30:40 state. Okay, so just a reminder is that for CPC Whitney single measurement.
10:30:46 The best precision as a PO would be easily implemented five, the precision of leptin and the quad comparison and zo is also with a precision around 20 minutes, five.
10:30:57 The precision in the editor Remy fact is it's not as good as the, I suppose equal region but still in a very good.
10:31:21 You know, very good level I mean it's relatively 0.0 point 1% compared to the vital of the weakness and itself.
10:31:15 Okay. That's all for my for my talk.
10:31:18 Great, thank you very much. So let's have some time for questions, comments,
10:31:31 so I would actually have a question, and so the the numbers been you just presented for CPC measurement of effective with mixing angle.
10:31:44 So, it's just an improvement compared to the numbers that are in the conceptual design report.
10:31:51 Yes, I forgot exactly what I was there. So, yes, for example, how much events, could we acquire according to one month to the taken. What is the efficiency for leptin efficiency for Crocs, what is the balance the efficiency, and the, taking efficiency.
10:32:13 The rate, all of this is based on the CPC detector level study.
10:32:19 Yeah, so I know it's more rigorous what you did. Now I just wonder, the eventual anticipated position that you've got is that better than before or is it similar but now it's on more solid footing.
10:32:33 There's no significant changes compared to the previous study I mean, it's just, it's more like a trying to give the final numerical results based on what we already have for CPE excellent things to be.
10:32:50 Yeah, I have a question on this right. So you said.
10:33:05 So I'm wondering whether the effect of initiated iteration, and also on like the beam energy spread this effect, considered a systematic errors.
10:33:11 That is actually even smaller compared to the to this to this statistical uncertainty.
10:33:20 So, which means if you're transported the be managers right because probably the theoretical calculation of the already the corrections.
10:33:30 That is smaller than this one.
10:33:33 After extrapolating to the, to the weakness angle so consistent with what we already have from compared with the lab and the slot.
10:33:44 These kinds of measurements at electron personal calendar will absolutely dominated by the statistical fluctuation.
10:33:51 Okay.
10:33:52 Thanks.
10:33:58 I actually would have on to another question about the study suited for the NFC.
10:34:04 Do you, do you have basically updated estimates for how well NFC can measure a be modest and effectively mixing angle, basically, you know, trying to constrain both PDFs and a of be at the same time and the energy.
10:34:27 Well the FB spectrum itself will be word processing.
10:34:33 All because we will anyway have a very large sample experimental systematics.
10:34:40 Although way still working on better performance level of studies.
10:34:46 Enter performance level studies. Anyway, we'll do, we'll be reduced because most of the calibration procedure is data driven also done by the statistics. So for AFP it will be perfectly suited me, well the important part is how to extrapolate the electronics
10:35:11 So according to our current study. So, if those correlation could be ridiculous. The using methods, or just, just know I mentioned, there's even better method of bears.
10:35:24 What that means they position on the witnessing.
10:35:27 I mean, after you determine the wig and the PDF to him, will be smaller than
10:35:38 table. Yes, here on the web Cassandra will be reduced to be smarter than pulling the trigger.
10:35:46 So you expect, you will have an updated estimate for that. So that's basically your plan.
10:35:55 If you're okay so if the uncertainty is the expected that from PDF to the smarter than pointed to Bolton, that means, at least, use the data from both run to run three and both rental anniversary.
10:36:09 So, in like a five or six years running pyramid.
10:36:17 Like you know I understand you know the considerations I'm just wondering you know if your plan for the, for the Snowmass process, you, you will be able to present some quantitative estimates that we could include in the, in the report for for the method
10:36:33 methodology and estimation results.
10:36:37 We almost finished everything. I mean, I think we can catch up with any times.
10:36:43 Okay, thank you.
10:36:48 I just have some self. Quick Set for promotion in CMS, we just, just did the the newbies.
10:36:58 It's a preliminary physics analysis says do Eliana for work, backward the cemetery for high dialect of masses above one seven TGV, it may be, it might be interested in the template may feel.
10:37:13 They may feel that that is a claims to correct for dilution in in defeat.
10:37:39 As long as the dilution is well more than been in Monte Carlos, I can say in the putting the chat the link to the family fair result if you see if it's interesting.
10:37:33 ms ms trillion process measurements.
10:37:38 We will definitely introduce very important information for protein structure.
10:37:45 Talking about the constraint on the PDF on certain is specifically for the poor region weakness angle measurement.
10:37:56 I
10:37:56 have to say, the more they pulled evens we are using the more sensitive we have have because if you are using really high minutes maybe even have different extra region, or those says compared to the evens at zo you use the for witness angle determination.
10:38:15 Um, so
10:38:18 Yeah, I was asking, trying to ask the, the same thing about the high mess.
10:38:24 This is probably not your goal for the mixing anger measurement, but it's very useful for constraining new physics do to like the full family operated from a primer so.
10:38:39 So I'm wondering, do you know whether there will be any projection for the very high mass
10:38:48 for the measurement. Well for very high mass region for example the talking about the master agent eyeball the 200 200 GV to like the almost one TV. This is a very important as you said before you'll physically like the tables and print as a prime or
10:39:05 some other models, searching, though this is a very useful because at the very high mass region, the AFP value as a fixed.
10:39:14 But the interference between the Z boson and the photons of interference, which means the weakness angle has a very low sensitivity for Hamas AFP.
10:39:25 You have a very small effective from this uncontrolled.
10:39:31 you'd actually make calculations, or modeling.
10:39:36 So that's a very good thing so as long as a week, but the, the, the difficulty comes from the experimental practical level thing because most of the precise calibration is done using a data driven Lee using the tables and my salon shape.
10:39:50 So you have to consider when you are measuring a very high mass region.
10:39:55 AFP that means your leptin in the final state that has an energy, much larger compared to the energy from direct sales labels indicate, so your systematic extra Malaysian will have a very high of.
10:40:10 Me significantly larger extrapolation from the label systematic to the high level systematic. So most difficulty for that part comes from the experimental performance that I will study.
10:40:23 Okay, I'm just a quick confirmation, are you going to do that projection or, it's not in your plan.
10:40:31 For me, at least by after this run to know. But, but we already have participated in the high mastery and mass measurement, but that's a simple one.
10:40:47 I'd run to so maybe in two or three, we could merge.
10:40:51 Great. Yes, thanks.
10:40:53 Thank you.
10:40:54 Thank you. I think we probably need to move on.
10:40:58 But have the one hand raised by either. Oh, okay.
10:41:02 Quickly.
10:41:04 Okay. Quick question, there is this, this recent work by by Paolo nazon Andrew deanery building on the luck slip PDFs, studying processes, using the laptop content inside the PDFs.
10:41:19 Are there any ideas of Atlas and CMS, maybe for the high roomy face to use the laptop content in the PDFs maybe not only for bsm searches but also for, let's say.
10:41:32 Standard Model measurements.
10:41:34 Though very good ones but maybe just on a different perspective than the usual dragon.
10:41:43 I personally have no knowledge on on this on this thing.
10:41:48 delights would be Valley, no light for Neptune initiated processes Yeah,
10:41:56 sure. I also think that it cannot compete let's say with with lab, for example, but, I mean, it would be at least possible to do let it let on initiated processes, but I mean, in the paper by Paolo and Julia they focus on bsm searches where they explicitly,
10:42:13 go for final states which do not compete with, or do not overlap with the dragon signature.
10:42:23 So I think it's probably very difficult but I mean would be worthwhile to look.
10:42:29 Okay.
10:42:31 Thanks.
10:42:34 Alright. Thank you, everybody.
10:42:36 So I guess we move to June now.
10:42:44 Hey, can you hear me. Yes. Can you share your slides. Okay. Yes.
10:42:54 So I will keep my word shopping on the, the measurement.
10:42:59 so nothing compared to last time I think the many Maxim tried to understand more about systematic so this is Paul, many focus on the sixth America, and the study was trying to understand
10:43:20 this automation. So the Avi measurement. Let me try to motivate persuade is not want to use more measurement.
10:43:30 The one of our most motivation is that it can probably such for new physics.
10:43:37 Yeah, cuz you know if you have no physic for example shows the or any new faces and model protect some particle. They may couple more to the peacock.
10:43:51 Somebody is one of the article, you can see below. They should a look if you increase the Benjamin ratio for RRB, but probably address bedroom window will remain the same, but only you can only see it in NaVi.
10:44:08 So that's one of our motivation you want to imagine what precisely
10:44:13 on this.
10:44:16 So the measurement was to have already quite good already. But we want to be better in order to see if there was new.
10:44:25 sensitive to what new physics, which are employed by federal, one of the meditative.
10:44:35 Yeah.
10:44:37 That was some test now the problem is.
10:44:42 And also there was also the different approach for on this, on the tapping that the clock in the left hand vandalizing and not going in detail on this.
10:44:55 So basically the systematic yeah I will try to understand what was the six and matter in the, in the lead measurement and try to see what we potential can do in the future and Neptune Kreider expand.
10:45:11 So,
10:45:14 so, you know what, I found what I see as it is not a trap West solution or where the in one premier level, even the left stage.
10:45:27 As in major six and medical really come coming found a tram modeling.
10:45:32 And another thing is, be tapping some med correlation, basically the way one peacock in one.
10:45:41 And, yeah, basically the correlation between the, the bigger somebody who didn't before. Yeah.
10:45:51 So basically what when we try to understand more is this
10:45:58 coordination.
10:46:02 So I think this could be due to manifest so this correlation many could be created by for example the QCD effect when you have gone to K to be people.
10:46:14 And then you create some correlation.
10:46:16 And there was other experiment or a fatty what would what axing and things like that.
10:46:22 Or, you can do it without the tetra.
10:46:35 And this QCD it said, We, there was some paper already documented in quite reasonable way I think there was a more, much more detail in that paper.
10:46:48 Basically you.
10:46:50 If you have high order rq CD collection, you may have.
10:46:57 For example, you will have a portfolio symmetry in a leading order. If you have one cooling radiation you have become.
10:47:10 Yeah, basically, you can impact on create some correlation between these two peacock.
10:47:17 So this theoretical.
10:47:22 Oh you some magic.
10:47:24 For experimental systematic on this topic is that we basically can be force theories had basically we cannot. I'm not sure what we can do, though.
10:47:37 Basically we cannot. I'm not sure what we can do, though. But, except that you can calculate the high order to CT much precisely, we've two times when by me. If this yeah we will need some help on series to, to understand more the high order effect for experimental effect.
10:47:51 I think this can be improved by importing the pixel efficiency.
10:48:02 And then you compare a CPC expected be tapping performance curve. So what you find is that with modern technology we, we can improve this by a lot so in the past.
10:48:16 So the left prop show the basically the impact of this correlation systematic basically the leading leading the clock.
10:48:26 And you can see that this systematic go down as your efficiency in increase. So you basically go quite linear.
10:48:35 So, but however, at that on that. The Walking point was something like 20 to 30% for Oracle.
10:48:43 So we expect that be tapping walking point is a while CPR lungs 70 or 80%. So, this will change quite low on the sixth and medic I will expand by extrapolating that 600 medic this will be a become a sub dominating somatic systematic with the move to Silicon
10:49:15 is in the six and it will basically become not important, not dominate and is. Yeah, we also try to understand more about, for example, alignment systematic.
10:49:20 If seem to be
10:49:24 also will be
10:49:27 become quite small, I think you might even lab level is nessa one can you and this will this almost disappear, hopefully, and hit efficiency also will we take a look at is also hopefully it will be not dominate.
10:49:43 So we also check a systematic on the laptop.
10:49:49 And together with the CPC and also the modern future you pass email Kreider is feminine, this would not be a dominant six and men as well.
10:50:01 So, another thing would be the trend modeling, as we just talked about a trend modeling will be already one of the dominant systematic oboe in the lab.
10:50:12 Stage.
10:50:14 So, this basically, they were entering way show one of the females and if I understand correctly.
10:50:25 I think the bedroom ratio optimization become one of the dominant sex and medics for the RB term modern.
10:50:51 Yeah, at least somehow found a favor physics expert, I think, yeah, hopefully the rift about who, and before we start on that will hopefully this will become smaller, much smaller than 20 years ago, hopefully.
10:50:53 So the final thing would be that was speaking systematic and
10:51:02 yeah this I'm not sure this can be calculated by Siri or not, because in the past in our lab in the least I try to do it. This systematic by data driven approach.
10:51:14 Yeah, I'm not sure whether we can do the first order calculation to, we do the systematic.
10:51:25 Basically, this was speaking in social will will change the hobbyist slightly
10:51:34 So this, you can see the feminine diagram there.
10:51:40 So that, yeah, in.
10:51:45 In the lab, they tried to understand the UN, try to measure it. Compare with from a mechanical and try to understand how this.
10:51:56 This is a fad, a given pad to the RB so that they have a paper on this.
10:52:04 Yeah I the only we can also do it as a true and neither lab.
10:52:22 Selfie was doing in the future glider.
10:52:12 If there was, if there was a serial calculation and still not high position enough, we can do that human but, of course, the input files they will be much better.
10:52:25 So basically we, we try to go through walk shorter systematic given phone that lab paper and sell the paper.
10:52:35 Try to understand how we can improve. And what systematic we will expect in the future, laptop and gradually experiment.
10:52:46 And, yeah, this is just update we haven't come to the final conclusion that any comments or feedback will be really important to us, especially on this, you'll see that was a lot of high order to see the calculations axiomatic, and also from.
10:53:02 Try modeling cinematic and so on and so forth.
10:53:05 Yeah, that's it for my top
10:53:09 right thank you very much.
10:53:13 nice family questions.
10:53:20 Okay, I would have a question about this thing with the,
10:53:27 with the beat tech hemisphere correlation.
10:53:32 I remember you mentioned this already at your previous presentation, our group and if I remember correctly at that time you were mentioning that instead of using the explanation for all Po, you might try to directly, check this using CPC detect a simulation.
10:53:51 Is this something that is ongoing.
10:53:54 Yes, this is ongoing.
10:53:57 Actually we we travel with yeah basically there was a to tapping approach. I think one is. Yeah.
10:54:06 I think that will be Alexa from ball. So, so basically we you, we have to approach, one is in the water, one is using the
10:54:18 parameter.
10:54:27 Since either. So we are trying to see how this.
10:54:27 Yeah, basically tried to understand right if you put different be typing algorithm, whether we can redo this image the correlation and things like that.
10:54:41 And you expect you might have some new insights on that on the time state of the Sonoma study.
10:54:50 Yeah I think so, yeah.
10:55:06 Yeah, you know, thanks for the talk, I mean I know that mean for example the ILC group in Valencia so specifically a brand new or less is also working a lot on this BB bar of our be measurement and much more.
10:55:23 Also, the mass determination. Are you in contact with them to somehow see what they are doing and what you're doing and in to compare and cross check and see how for example the systematics between IFC and CPC compared with each other.
10:55:42 We have an content with them. Yeah, we can put us in contact so that we can cause chat systematic study. Yeah, I think that's good to know that they're also working on talking talk at the IFC workshop next week if I'm not wrong.
10:56:03 Yes.
10:56:09 That's good to know. Yeah, I will try to follow that jumping.
10:56:12 So, regarding the effect from the how to groom split into the bar.
10:56:19 I'm wondering, in your event selection.
10:56:22 Do you categorize the second internet to detonate or for jet lag last region and the events in principle the efficiency for without having to grow, which has grown the efficiency will be different.
10:56:40 Yeah, for the moment we haven't tried that yet. I think it's good suggestion yeah which we will try to do category to nine o'clock infocomm.
10:56:52 The moment we only look at the top or even. Most importantly,
10:56:57 now once you can categorize the event, then you can rely on less serious uncertainty. You can you can calculated. Both contribution from without how to grow and grow.
10:57:14 Okay, yes because it reminded me.
10:57:22 And if I can kind of pull off there you also mentioned the impact of other theory uncertainties that come from blue and variation.
10:57:31 I think we would absolutely expect you know that by the time stare. See you can see or any similar collider will be learning that there will be improvements from that.
10:57:43 And I want to say it's not your job to figure out how big the improvements are. So I would just suggest that in your ever budget, you know when you put stuff together just keep this deal a little simpler.
10:57:56 Okay, so try and do this work to figure out how much that's important. You know we should certainly assume it will be improved.
10:58:04 Okay.
10:58:16 All right, thank you. then, there seemed to be no more questions.
10:58:21 So, let us move on to cheat you feel.
10:58:28 Hi. Can you hear me. Yes.
10:58:30 Okay, I'll just quickly share my slides.
10:58:38 Yep, it's a bill.
10:58:44 Right.
10:58:46 I can go ahead. Yes, please.
10:58:48 Okay. So, in this very short talk, I'm going to give a status report on where we are with low get you don't BBs studies at 100. tv.
10:59:00 So just to introduce maybe the the analysis team so far it's four of us, there's around myself, Luca Marc Andre, and Carlos.
10:59:13 So yeah, that's the the team for now.
10:59:17 And then just to introduce a bit why we want to look at this and what we really want to do so.
10:59:25 Basically we want to study the sensitivity to the scattering of longer to do polarized vegetables and that hundred TV Hadron Collider. And this is a very interesting and important process because it helps us also to test electronic signature breaking
10:59:42 and also to look into other things such as anomalous quite a gauge couplings. And for this particular analysis we were looking at the full electronic same sign ww channel, which actually offers the largest electric to to CD production cross section among
11:00:05 BBs processes, and on the feminine diagram on the bottom left, just illustrates this process. So we basically have two incoming quarks that each meet w both on and then they scatter off each other, and subsequently decay electronically.
11:00:25 So, our signal.
11:00:28 In principle would have to Samson leptons large med to account for the neutrinos and then two to four jets. And here I list the backgrounds that could potentially mimic this signal.
11:00:41 So we have doubles and processes such as Wz and the opposite side at ww process. Then we have the V plus chats, the tiki bar at the top processes. Then we have tribalism processes as well as, v plus gamma processes.
11:01:01 So on the next slide here I just kind of in a bit of detail, highlight our status and plans so far. So, primarily we want to just measure the sensitivity of this process, and depending on time and availability of person power, we might consider looking
11:01:22 into anomalous couplings. So, so far we have generated some test samples for for our signal, and we've performed some basic generator level validation which I'll talk about in the next few slides and Impala we're also setting up the, the chain for the
11:01:44 the final production. And this is being prepared on the Snowmass machine, and it also includes the interface to to the office.
11:01:56 And then for the background processes we will use the central regenerated samples.
11:02:02 But we will, we might have to generate Wz electric and two CD samples just to get more statistics.
11:02:14 And in the past few days. We've also started helping with a vacation, of the center samples. And I'll talk more about this also in the coming slides. Then for the analysis framework we plan to use a flatbed from like that is a p&l, and it was used also
11:02:35 for a similar study for the yellow report that Tyler me LLC. So, it's in place, the food chain including cross section measurement, but we just need to make some few adjustments, also to remove a few parameters that are dependent on Atlas software and,
11:02:55 and things like this, but just a few tweaking is needed. And for now for for the validation we are relying on revision routines, as you see.
11:03:07 Okay so, on the signal sample.
11:03:11 The generator that we're using is mad graph, 3.1 interface to PDF, eight.
11:03:19 And basically we generate four processes in both the W plus plus w plus w plus channel and also the w minus w minus case. So, the first process that I list here is inclusive so not no polarization included.
11:03:39 And then we have also the case where both W's polarized longitudinally This is represented by the zeros in this Kelly brackets. And then the third case is the mixed polarization where we have one of the W's longitudinal polarized, and the other transfer
11:04:01 sleep polarized polarize and vice versa. And then for for this particular process that makes polarization. We treat the decay to tell it turns separately.
11:04:20 Because if if we otherwise make this inclusive, the decay favors the towels. So, this discussion, can be found more on this mud graph channel Launchpad.
11:04:30 So, discuss in detail why we need to separate the, the towels from the other leptons.
11:04:39 And, and also maybe just to mention that in the definition of the leptons. We also have to make sure that we don't include the the towels.
11:04:48 Then for the PDF sets we using this living order.
11:04:54 And for for this test, in particular we just produce only 10,000 events per sample, and of course the, the center of mass energies, 100 TV.
11:05:08 Okay so here also, on the left I highlight the generator level cuts that we apply. So it's a PT have at least 10 gV and so the gap at the same budget eater.
11:05:21 No more than 6.5 little eternal mobile and five. And on the table on the top right you see some cross sections, which I must point out that these are actually for Felicity eigen states defined in the pattern pattern center of mass friend.
11:05:40 We will look also in the WWE center of mass fame and they are we expect that the cross sections will be much higher than than what we see here.
11:05:51 So, for this we basically just wanted to compare the how the inclusive sample. Come, compared to the sum of the polarization. And when we look at the, the total cross section of the polarization.
11:06:08 We find that it actually matches what we get from from the inclusive so this kind of just validates that our setup is quite make sense or is reasonable.
11:06:21 And then we further also look at some distributions can imagine distributions, using a same sign ww prevent retain which matches our face best the face of the SEC we, we will look at, at least to some level.
11:06:42 And I want to list that cuts, but this attach that we apply and on the bottom right I show one of these distributions for the plus plus, case is the number of jets, distribution, and you can see that though there's some slight differences across the,
11:07:13 But in general, the two samples agree reasonably well. And on the next slide I have some more distributions which also show a similar agreement as well.
11:07:24 In both shape and size, and so we have the leading jet PT at the top.
11:07:32 And then on the left we have the plus plus case and minus minus case. On the right, and then at the bottom we have the leading lectern PD distributions.
11:07:43 So, this is the basic validation that we have so far and it just shows that our setup. Kind of makes sense when comparing to stay inclusive, to the some of the positions.
11:07:57 Okay, so now talk a bit about the validation procedure that we are adopting for for validating the background samples. So, the recommendation from the Monte Carlo production team is that we, we make some distribution some kind of magic distributions.
11:08:19 their normal samples which I call MC prod, and then compare them to what is in this f FCC examples and we do this at the truth level, only. So in the example that I show.
11:08:36 In the next few slides.
11:08:38 It's for Tiki Bar sample, and we only look at 10,000 events for easy comparison. So, the SEC hf samples are located on your s, and this is not mounted on the Snowmass cluster.
11:08:56 So, what we do is copy the files to the p&l cluster, and then we come back so we get the lhe files and then convert them to happen. See, and then we run through some generic revert routines and also for our face best their same time ww reverse routine.
11:09:16 And then for the MC prod which is the snowman samples of course they are located on the Snowmass cluster. And so for this, we convert them. The LSC files to help them see on the Snowmass cluster, and then we copy them to be announced so that we can combine
11:09:36 upload them together with the FCC example. So for this as well we run through the some generic revenge routines, as well as the same sign one.
11:09:48 Okay so this this is what we have so far here I plot, a few distributions and a few others can be found during the backup.
11:09:57 So we have the either distributions for for the leading and subletting chat and also the leading jet PT here. Everybody, you can see clearly here that the disagreement is obvious.
11:10:14 So we looked a bit in the in both samples we looked at the ethos to try and understand where these differences could be coming from. So, festivals something maybe minor is that they use two different mad graph versions.
11:10:36 And then there are some differences in some kind of attics like JPT leptin PT and also jet eater, and leptin eater, but one major difference maybe is this dialect on Muscat, which is applied for the FCC sample, but it's not applied for for the smaller
11:10:58 sample. And this leads to this cross section difference.
11:11:02 So the FCC hh Assam boys, effectively, much less in cross section compared to these enormous sample.
11:11:11 And what we think so far is that this introducing this dialect and mascot, then makes the FCC hh sample a dialect and sample, whereas the normal sample is inclusive.
11:11:27 So this leads to this difference in cross section. So, what we might have to do is perhaps carefully define a dialect on face space, and try to compare this properly we're already making some progress with that but we'll also follow up with the Monte
11:11:45 Carlo production team.
11:11:46 So that's, that's where we are in terms of ramping up this study. So in summary, just we just wanted to show that we have exercised and validated the setup for our signal sample production.
11:12:06 And we, we are also preparing for the full signal sample production. And this, so I showed here that we use Minecraft version 3.1 point zero. And what we're preparing now on the Snowmass class is the same version as is used for the central Monte Carlo
11:12:26 samples which is a Mega 3.1 point one.
11:12:32 And then we have also started looking at the validation of some background samples as I showed you for for the TT by case and we hope to ramp up with that soon and so I understand.
11:12:44 If we should really be comparing this Sonoma samples to the FCC hh once.
11:12:56 And then, yeah, we are developing our analysis framework, everything is in place we just need some adjustments, but for now we are relying on ribbit for our validation process.
11:13:07 So that's it for our update.
11:13:13 All right, thank you so much.
11:13:16 Do we have some questions.
11:13:23 Let me, let me ask a very, very quick, quick question on this slide, six and when I seen good the.
11:13:32 I think that the comment was that they checked the distribution is quite similar. just the
11:13:39 question is the inclusive includes also ww atomic the Kaizen.
11:13:48 And no it does not it's also.
11:13:50 Okay.
11:13:57 not really that similar.
11:14:04 No I okay they maybe we can we can we can talk offline, just to see how would we put a threshold about similarity, and a very, very quick suggestion I read on slide 11 instead.
11:14:22 It looks like the, the main differences between the two samples have been identified, wondering if I could just take the, the tightest the set of cards that
11:14:38 their works, that is applied in in both and just make a quick check that, that smaller lower fee spacer things are major.
11:14:49 But then it's, it's useful to follow up with the Monte Carlo production team and just make sure that if they're that cats are they not necessary or for for analysis have not applied that generation.
11:15:06 Yeah, we already thinking about that just making a common Face Face smallest one.
11:15:14 We already tried with the same sign ww ribbit routine to kind of bring them in the same face space but that hasn't brought their agreement yet so we're still working on it.
11:15:28 Thanks.
11:15:31 Yeah, I would also have a question so the signal that you are generating a standard model right if I understood it correctly.
11:15:44 Yes.
11:15:44 Yeah, no, that's fine.
11:15:46 I'm just curious. In the end, you know when you do your study how, how are you planning to interpret your results is still going to say you want to identify the GPS process and the Standard Model, or are you planning to put some bsm limits.
11:16:06 We have not discussed that maybe my country are all around can comment.
11:16:12 Yeah. The basic idea is to establish the sensitivity towards your total vegetables and scattering at rqV machine. And so basically you can do your scan was indicated luminosity and see where you end up and go you know statistically dominating where is
11:16:26 the medics will start to play a significant role.
11:16:29 The anomalous coupling sensitivity studies really depend on us being able to have the samples generated and have enough people actually looking at this, so
11:16:42 something you might consider doing but it's not the base you might consider doing but for me this is not the baseline we have to make sure the time scale, which is January now right basically two months to make sure we get some production completed so
11:16:57 but yes we we are thinking about it. The question is will we be able to pull that off to have some anomalies competing studies as well.
11:17:08 There was also question by jumping that disappeared.
11:17:11 Yeah, I was a change to ask the similar what would it be.
11:17:18 I understand that it's going to be WAWS scattering cross-section measurement in and it's, it's probably hard to interpret or put in the global fits in various companies they can't, how to do it consistently.
11:17:38 When we put the fk right as in, and wondering if there are any. Yeah.
11:17:50 convenient a way to connect this.
11:17:58 I don't I'm not aware, either how we would simply connect us with an with an EFT measurement right i mean sec yes you get a cross section measurement.
11:18:08 Same time WWE longitudinal Kettering
11:18:14 unless we really start simulating now anomalous coupling samples.
11:18:19 I don't see a connection that easily translate the measurement let's say in a confusion across section to an ominous coupling sensitivity study.
11:18:28 Yeah, especially since you, you can't, you know, measure the invalid muscles to who your system if it was, you know, then the translation to some, you know, simple theorists study would be easier but yes way it's not
11:18:47 Tao has a question.
11:18:49 Yeah.
11:18:51 Since the nice talking network.
11:18:54 I'm just wondering, how do we infer your result to the knowledge shooting longitudinal scattering rather than just the general staring as we know it transfers transfers will be the dominant contributions overall.
11:19:14 Yeah, I did the transfers transfers, would I like to see also from that would be dominant, but I don't, I don't have a good answer to your question, I don't know if Mike Andre can comment.
11:19:29 I'm not sure I fully understood your question talk when you please repeat. Yeah, so it seems that you indicate to emphasize a longitudinal longitudinal w scary.
11:19:40 Yes, but when you observe the final days, you some overall contributing diagrams and the transfers transfers will dominate.
11:19:50 How do we interpret this result as an attitude among children scary.
11:19:55 Or you have to basically will be kind of a template fit you have to make sure you extract from the, you obviously yes you will measure. So, let's say, you mentioned sensor ww right that's inclusive, and that's across all the backgrounds, that's fine,
11:20:09 right now, once you have extracted your signal and say you know this is my cross section now you can still extract within that signal, what fraction of longitudinal cross section is contributing in here and you say, as you say, the longitudinal longitudinal
11:20:23 will be the smallest one, but in my mind it's the more interesting one because that's something where maybe the new physics would show up, and you want to know what your sensitivity to that is.
11:20:35 Yeah, maybe just to add one more comment, and I think a, in a way, of course the smart Congress said, We are concentrating on the children nutrients caffeine was not that interesting.
11:20:50 But our results could also give you know the sensitivity to all three contributions right in a sense that what would be the expected sensitivity to longitudinal legitimate transfers and transfers transfers, so we could try to fit all three components
11:21:08 together, to see how we can distinct how well we can separate this at the FCC hh. Yeah, I agree this is a byproduct of hubris AC you should be able to split it up in these three components like mixed TT and lol.
11:21:16 And that will be a basically the result of the script you will have all three results, but in the future, if you're able to also combine the hydraulic decay mode.
11:21:27 W one of the W's decay to digest, you can look at the anger distribution, and then the, the transfers and in order to do politicians would have a quite a different the anger distribution for the decay products.
11:21:44 But of course it's a it's a different to study.
11:21:47 Yes, yes I mean it's something that's also close to my heart.
11:21:51 As if you're going to cover this up, we just recently published something for the halo marriage the in the semi public channel showing you the strength of this channel that has been, I think, More to a large extent so far.
11:22:05 But the SEC this will be a different study, and of course in America different guests you only have a you have actually more, you have only one ambiguity, for one year trainer in the final state so you can kind of can imagine you reconstruct the whole
11:22:19 beast have better access because I'm teacher star for that is definitely attractive at the, this is not this study so I'm happy to see whether we can pull off a similar topic as well again the timescales are getting rather rather tight here.
11:22:34 Yeah, thanks.
11:22:50 Thanks for the talk, I have a question on the set of cuts that you chose in your rivet analysis on page six. So that set of cuts is that done at the moment, mostly for the validation of the Monte Carlo samples, or did you already consider some sort of
11:23:00 optimize ization towards let's say search for bsm signals using that channel.
11:23:13 No, this is just basically for the validation we haven't yet optimized our guts. Yeah, okay, I thought so. Thank you.
11:23:21 Right
11:23:25 there any more questions so I think you again, Nokia, and we move to the last presentation for today by young.
11:23:45 Can you share your slides so we don't hear you read up by now.
11:24:00 See the slides, but I don't hear you.
11:24:17 Okay, I guess he's claimed to reconnect.
11:24:41 Harris Can you hear me now we're here Yes. Okay, thank you.
11:24:47 Okay, let me share my screen.
11:24:54 Yes. Can you see the screen. Yeah.
11:24:58 Okay. Perfect. Great, go for it.
11:25:01 Okay. Sorry for the delay, there is maybe there is something wrong with the microphone. So let me start for now.
11:25:09 So today I'm going to talk about our work in collaboration with Tom and cooking on the electronic PDFs and a little bit about the ongoing project on the electric recommendations for future Hannity's.
11:25:26 So, first, firstly, allow me for one second to talk about the basic, basic concept and backgrounds that everyone, maybe everyone knows, so first today, this is, let me recall that, so called the current photon approximation.
11:25:41 So that's what people have been doing for from for, I think even 20 or 30 years that they've been calculating this kind of process they instead of calculate the full process they use the photon PDF and commodity based photon initial state process.
11:26:01 So this is a so called EPA PDF PDF and this thing My heart is photon interstate cross section which is just a hard cross section in the analogous to the to the capacity, one.
11:26:15 So, is this a PDF, the traditional way people can do other things is to study at high end laptop clatters me at that time it was, it was the madness creditors to include this photon photon initial states for for them fallen condition, processes, and they
11:26:33 can also do the.
11:26:35 Consider the initial stage radiation by, you know that the beam particle radiate out of one or even more photon before the culture happens.
11:26:51 So that's the background, and now this is
11:26:48 what cooking has has reported last time in here in the in this meeting our, our, what, what we can see as for the high demand letter. So, in our opinion that's the handyman club there is actually, you've actually you've ever Vic version of the highly
11:27:09 the accuracy. So, instead of just have we just have the new classroom and and the 1414 collegial we actually I received can be treated as as a pattern.
11:27:17 accuracy. So, instead of just have we just have the new classroom manners and the 1414 collegial, actually I received can be treated as as a pattern. So we have a meal plus minus Newtonian neutrino photon ZNWW Quark on long long because we have all the
11:27:27 Standard Model particle size as the patterns.
11:27:31 And this is a full picture of that, Sasha, Sasha highly the electric ladder. So we have the decrease in curves here's the dotted lines are for the meal plans to be a minus annihilation they should have been know as, as we know it has been over as behavior
11:27:48 it is kind of small. And the way we also have the increasing was that is for the fusion processes. And of course, since we, if we recall this luminosity one since we have not only the fallen fallen.
11:28:04 We have also an WWZZ and, and, and so and other things. We have, you know, everything inside the vv some over them, as the stemming was a cross section so we say that the increasing.
11:28:19 So that's the full picture of such a high new machine.
11:28:39 And that's how been done before. Yeah, our previous work. So, here let me show a little bit on what we are doing and what we plan to do. So, in this page.
11:28:33 On the left hand side are the things that he has been on in the literature for a long time that we can do is, for example, for the meal plasma management machine we can just calculate the annihilation directly or we can include the eyes are all we can
11:28:51 do the photon photon collision, or we can even do more things like TV. The imply the effective w approximation as Sally Dawson suggested 30 years ago.
11:29:15 Oh, maybe 40 years ago, just the truth, the matter was on Saturday and W says that's a pattern from the, from the beams.
11:29:11 But that has said that what we are doing on what we plan to add to the speaker. So firstly, if they continue from the speaking of the beam me on to a photon, a photon can continue doing, doing the speaking to a pair of a formula, and the formula hires.
11:29:30 So that's for me on the, on the farming can be either lactose intolerant or meal plus or minus our cocoa bar. So if it happens to qq bar that it can also continue doing the speaking to the glass of photons.
11:29:44 So as as what I want to point out here is that that's the color of the particles appears. So the quarks and gluons can can be traded also as part of pattern, even from a laptop.
11:29:57 And, and, if, if they go beyond that this electric scale.
11:30:08 Typically says that the table the mass of course we have become follow the spirit of the electronic electronic sorry either. In fact, that the approximation as to treat these and who has a pattern.
11:30:15 And, and this above picture. You'll also receive the corrections from the electronic sector as since the carbs can also read the aid of the W and the other thing is, is a
11:30:30 convoluted together. So in a very and that's what I have been saying that everything is partner. I mean by by seeing everything I mean the full Standard Model particles.
11:30:40 And here is our result. By doing this calculation we need to solve this, the grub equation to to include the more and more split things to do the reservation.
11:30:52 The grab equation to to include the more and more split things to do the reservation. So here is our results, we show that to class. The first one is below the electronic scale where we only have the cube at the on the QC the illusions.
11:31:04 So at that time we only have the photon cologne up have car, Duncan Clark, and of course me on itself as a podcast, and the very system yo it kicks around the x equals one.
11:31:18 Well the other ones that piques the interest my fringe, so the Mian is just a very similar to the, to the, mailers card in the community case in the kill CD case well the other ones photon blue one and parks.
11:31:30 They are just like the Seahawks in the crucifix. Well if they go beyond the standard electronic scale, maybe voc Maura.
11:31:41 We need to turn on the electric sector in this evolution, and the video be able to see more, more patterns we have neutrinos and we have now videos, we have these and, and also the comedy makes it.
11:31:55 So here I am on the show Tuesday is my is that meet me. The victory was two different scales one is cubicles two three TV and film, TV, here in this case is 30 TV and 50 TV, and the skill and certainly is around the 20%.
11:32:13 And also, here I want to point out is that the by including the electronic sector in the illusion, the existing QEDMQZD PDFs, we may receive very big, big corrections, for example that Bangkok.
11:32:31 pdf receives around a given 100% correction because of the drug table the ladder asked you to gauge how many
11:32:38 And here is the luminosity left hand side is for the three TV machine right hand side is for 10 TV machine. because actually we can compare this this previous the whole picture I showed last year I just showed you the full a photon w o clock clock clock
11:32:58 Here I show more scenes we have photo photo photo photo glue on for some part, and those things, and the traditionally, If we only have, how EPA will.
11:33:08 We only have this forum for someone, but I hear this whole the whole picture is something new. And then we see the platonic luminosity for this affordable lower on the phone.
11:33:17 to the phone and 41. And also this totally new things that the pure RQQCD luminosity. They are small actually they're small they are just that point, 5% to this photo photo man.
11:33:38 If I want to give you a benchmark, but if you consider that larger QC the company and they can even give you a sensible cross sections, when when doing the final analysis.
11:33:52 And here is your thing this Illuminati we can do some some some calculations. And here is what we may consider reconsider default and vote on the bar that's the previous previously vicious previously believed to be the largest background as at a very
11:34:12 high energy left and gliders, and we also include the, the other processes that based on the, the new, new patterns that appear resolving that that is the car, car loans.
11:34:25 So we have this this left hand side is for five degree detector angle setup and the right hand side is for a 10 degree detect the angle setup of the of the weather.
11:34:38 So what we can see is that this orange solid curve is the for the for the for the photon to Cuba, which was previously believed that to be the largest background, but the most we can say as we see other channels, because of the new introduced patterns,
11:34:53 and the other to estimate the background of virtual machines is turned on, we need to some over all these things, and then then the real background we see there is the digest production, and the other is here is the lacquer is here also here for the 10
11:35:11 degree setup, which is almost the other magnitude higher than the than the photo photo on the Google bar. So that means that our analysis is is very important and unnecessary for this.
11:35:22 And also, yeah here made me show that a comparison very directed comparison, left hand side is before our comparison. Before our analysis, right hand side is after hour after introducing the full electronic to death.
11:35:38 So we sit down on the left hand side is this. Okay, offer closer for the five degree, detect angle setup right bottom line for the 10 degree detect angle setup, so we can see that the, the Dumbo involves adopted ones that actually the leading other processes
11:35:56 the compass gathering the barbarous gathering but the deer kind of smaller at the high end of the range. Well, we see that for them for them to keep a bar is the largest above ground in that opening, but I very, as I have mentioned that if they introduced
11:36:13 But I very, as I have mentioned that if they introduce the full Standard Model practical side pattern, we have this thing. This new things and we need to some over them to have this real background, so this is valid or magnitude than that one.
11:36:29 Okay, so here we show a little bit on the, on this distribution that that we do with in the in the calculations.
11:36:38 So this one is a lot less focused on the 10 degree the technical setup, which is more conservative and service me, that's what what we know we have two types of can magically two different processes, why is the new plasma minus annihilation matrix the
11:36:56 black solid black curve here. And as the otherwise the fusion processes so here this one is the federal state power emerged mass distribution where we see that this, the annihilation peaks here is the resonance peak of for dangerousness, but it's actually
11:37:14 peaks at the machine entity. Well the fusion processes the scan the full spectrum and piece, your pics in the small x range in low and low X ray that so they show different properties and here is actually the rapidity distribution, and I always say that
11:37:33 annihilation is kind of a more central, well the fusion said this, spread out.
11:37:39 But, something, something more interesting, as in to our experimental colleagues, is it might be, this a judge distribution. So as we can show on this is the final stage jet PT distribution and here is the final stage, get another distribution.
11:37:55 So we hear me, they use this a dotted blue curve for the photon photon to ww para production as a benchmark. So what we can see is in the low PT range, lower than 60 GV here, and then the, the QEDQCD Jeff production is the is very large, is that, so we
11:38:32 we can see cannot see anything else but this goes to the object. All the only when they go beyond the 6060 GV we can see we can see this year after we accept her in the standard model. And also i think i think i believe only when they go beyond this 60
11:38:34 to the high 50 range, we can see the post ball, new physics effects at this, the hand if you love the clatters, the similar things that also happen to here, only when they go beyond the round 200 gV in the federal, state and energies, they can make, they
11:39:05 see the, the thunder power production and the only limit go beyond this high energy range we can see the the possible new physics effect. And here is ours ours told me we need to focus more on what we are working on the car here is what we are, we are
11:39:13 are doing on our next step. So, as we believe that at a future super high ninja collider is that it's not only the high demand clatter but also we can also consider the hundred TV Hadron Collider, and the, the clean your video says it's also happens to
11:39:31 to in the in the in the federal, state, when when the final state particles are very high energy they can also radiate out the particles. So, in this along this line we say we want to say that's the those future high need for others can be also treated
11:39:46 as electronic factories.
11:39:51 And of course we have to become the country, and we can use the so called electronic punish our to deal with that but here right now if we focus more on the electronic fragmentation functions, yet The Wi Fi.
11:40:06 So, and here this one, I don't want to go to too much details about that because we are still working on that. So, I just want to show a little bit on the ideas.
11:40:15 So here it's a left hand side is for the PDF that what we are more familiar faces here a small HDA the stands for the hydrogen, obviously,
11:40:29 for the hydro glider we can we can use ah to stand for the problem, and for here we young clatter we just that he is the meal spits out to these are patterns, and this is that they can function and we have that the graph looks like this.
11:40:45 And I just use the QED to set a very simple example is that the graph looks like like this this is the electron, and he bar is is a public on the, on the photo.
11:41:00 And of course in the neon collider which is the nucleus is with meals. On the right hand side is the electric of fragmentation function which is obviously, it looks very like very similar to the PDF but you know that the stability and speaking is in the
11:41:15 in the opposite direction so we have the I very energetic the particle and it will radiate out other particles and then, finally, a fragment into the VC the hard ones are we see the final states, so that the graph looks like this, and also is a graduate
11:41:31 in your metrics form it looks like this in, in the very simple cool 3d.
11:41:39 That's what maybe we'll do maybe also like just like what have we have been doing on the PDF video, maybe we'll continue the full standard Standard Model spectrum, spectrum and then I saw that the globe and then finally how hopefully hopefully we can
11:42:02 that fragmented function to help draw the jack jack pictures of the high energy left and clatters and the family. Also the hydro clatters.
11:42:05 And here is our
11:42:09 summary and, you know, afternoon. So the analytic side I just want to say we have been working on the electronic PDFs, and that is at very high energy range the linear split into dominance that is our motivation and the for the initial stage radiation
11:42:26 we use the we employed the electronic PDFs.
11:42:44 So the electronic poisons can be treated at the particles. So in this stance on the highly recommend clatters people your they say that the, that they are actually vector both on collectors and also have Wi Fi consider the hannity lot harder and ladders.
11:42:47 We also need to consider is the corrections from the electro electro big sector.
11:42:53 And by solving that you do have a you evolution, other some other particles like parks and Lawrence also appears in this picture, so everything is the problems as I as I have been saying all the time.
11:43:08 On the for the final state radiation the view. Next step. Our next step is to employ the electronic for our fragmented function. And so finally they hope to be able to handle these electronic picture of the have a filter creditors, and then they would
11:43:38 think we will be able to say that the the future very very highly dividers can be treated as the chat factories. And also I'm on the make a very short, very brief comment on the, on the New York letter which, which I revised has been discussing for so
11:43:47 long, so of course we know there are many things to work on the earth center model itself and also beyond the standard model. and we know that there are two classes of the processes violence meal plus or minus annihilation vibration we hope to to produce
11:44:02 some possible highway states to search for the, the, the new physics beyond the star model. And we also have the fusion processes which is discuss the whole spectrum I'm barely hope to have them precision test on the, on the standard model itself, which
11:44:19 also helps us to look for a new physics, but our pond me they have made is that, that this men background on this on this highly neon color is actually the QCD Jeff production, like in the low PT range is the non productive for them for the initial hedonic
11:44:38 production which has been studied very well by backlog and asking. Many years ago. And in the high PD range that a vitreous protectively Catholic tackler ball is what we have, they have they have been done is that car kind of glory initial draft production
11:44:55 address production is its dominance and it needs to be considered in the future analysis and the simulations. Some qy think you were finding a little bit behind time but yeah Marc Andre.
11:45:10 quite a while. So thank you very much for this fascinating talk to talk about happened your poor experimentalists out your colleagues Alex I mean that's exactly one thing I've always been concerned about I mean yes I can run for example use you hurt yourself
11:45:30 look you're producing Samson WW, Becca balls and scattering.
11:45:45 But of course that's just running conventional PDFs and monte-carlo and we would love to have something available that actually gives us the electronic PDFs, like the direct radiation of who is on from the protons and scattering.
11:45:48 But, so, how do you see the future evolving brother bps release at some point that generated for just digest or, at which point you think this is ready for experimentalists to use rather than having a specialized framework for the earth.
11:46:06 Ah, you wanna you wanna know when the experiment of colleagues can use this, this framework to do the simulations and the analysis. Yes. Oh yeah. And so the current status is, This is what we want to do this is just a state of art and we want to provide
11:46:24 the farm family them. And right now what I know is the Mad graph. Director gonna do about to release their implementation of the of this of electoral effectiveness w approximation.
11:46:39 So, they are here, they are here.
11:46:42 And the but but they do collaborate with them and also with Mr. Wizard group to simply implement all the other things that they have done in their package.
11:46:57 So they hope the very survey.
11:47:09 Hopefully it's not too far from now that we can we can release them to that the whole community to use in their analysis will be wonderful. Thank you.
11:47:14 Thank you
11:47:14 also have a question.
11:47:16 So I was a little surprised to see that the for the cross section that the blue blue initiative processes larger than the clock initiated process.
11:47:28 Even though the blue ones have to be radiated of clocks in order to dominate in the first place, How could we want to understand that, because the.
11:47:39 If I want to say this that glow, glow. Because.
11:47:45 Yeah, because the glow, glow to globalize.
11:47:52 So again, because, because a Glock long took a long, long as it's not it's because I think because of the multiplicity VB union two times.
11:48:09 Just a color factors in a process that overpowers basically the is so question.
11:48:10 Yes, yes.
11:48:13 Because you have more colors.
11:48:15 Yeah.
11:48:17 I didn't, I didn't think the effect was so big, but Okay, good, good. Thanks.
11:48:25 Yeah.
11:48:25 Yeah, I am curious, given such a high to background.
11:48:34 What were there any study actually taking into account this when they do the projection for me and criteria for example for the Higgs man and
11:48:46 I think not yet.
11:48:48 I didn't, I didn't see maybe, maybe, maybe just because I didn't see it but I don't know the other day I don't
11:48:58 know the answer is no because acoustic calculation is relatively new is really new for those guys did, however, it will not change the picture because he showed the city gv cut off.
11:49:11 And for the Higgs analysis. Typically people always impose around 5060 GV for the PT, the DHDK to the park or something anyway.
11:49:22 Okay, so that's it, that's, yeah, that's where the. He emphasized. You need some minimal cut off. This is the same picture at the allergy, why you want to trigger the high PG leptons other things you want to get away from the continue hydroponic production.
11:49:39 and here it's the same. You need to have some minimal cut off, in order to separate your your next week processes, from the very afford low PT hydroponic activities that have not been quantified before.
11:49:55 Thank you very much.
11:49:56 Yeah.
11:50:03 Really good.
11:50:06 Oh yeah, there's a question from Tanya.
11:50:09 Yeah. Hi, can you hear me.
11:50:11 Yes. Yes. Very good. Okay.
11:50:14 I mean, I always ask this question to the top authors and I think they are concentrating on WW and maybe see.
11:50:25 So I mean as you know these approximations are the PDFs, have of course readings of validity, right, the Columbia in the in the millennia.
11:50:38 And then it's always interesting to see how good you are, if you are comparing this matrix element. Yeah.
11:50:49 And I'm saying this, I mean, because sometimes you have to identify for.
11:51:09 Find the states which are stable. You have additional diagrams which are not captured by this radiative approach or approximation approach so the two testers are, can you make statements about the validity regime of the PDFs which you will reduce at some
11:51:15 point, or you are using now, instead.
11:51:24 I sorry I didn't get your question that much, you wanna you wanna Yo, yo, yo, you did to comparison between the fix order, like, fix water matter graph calculations.
11:51:34 In comparison with a Ewa approximation. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, that's our yard. We have that line.
11:51:46 This is not.
11:51:48 This is not a coupe cooler cooler wrath while we have do show this electroweak Juan, and go go go, guys.
11:51:58 We have here. Yes, you can say he falls here, you can have all other channels or under the town hall, all the.
11:52:11 That's, that's all cause that's karma fusion Come on fusion, but we do have been that good it is a very troublesome fusion using Netflix or our metrics sentiment, which you
11:52:25 can do this picture.
11:52:29 I mean what I'm really looking at us, looking for us. Our set so you know kind of testing the validity of wa for a specific process for example and I'm asking this of course I have a reason for asking this
11:52:49 question. So, let me go back this this way is actually what I just as as kind of background I think because covering your party that before in this in Snowmass, so this this thought is from our first paper on the event Rico PDF application I add milk
11:53:08 ladder, and you'll see here that, for example TD bar production. And that's what we used to evaporate death. And to do this calculation, and well we compared our results with with fabulous Antonia's company on the air in the house, they also have their
11:53:24 paper in on the neon clatters they use the use the map graph to do the fixed other, so for their device that's the two to four processes that the meal plus or minus to teach your barn and to neutrinos for the chart the chart current and also the meal
11:53:41 plasma madness, which divine the meal plasma madness for the, for the neutral current.
11:53:48 And you our results.
11:54:08 I put in the in this paper, if you can find the area you can find that table for the cross sections exactly number as a single three tv 2014 tv those things, those benchmark benchmark points, but we compare the our results with a fabulous company for
11:54:09 those typical processes and we got very good agreement with with them.
11:54:14 But the only thing we need, we need to, to be careful is, is that in order to make the EWAVUKC into to make it simple to under to understand that in order to make VWEWH will be valid.
11:54:31 We need to make know the heart for the heart cross, cross section hard process, we need to make the, make sure that as hard. He had had a not small.
11:54:42 Because we've had is too small. How can you say that the W is is almost masters is not valid. So in that, in that way for a TD bar, production i think is is good, but for the web production we need to do a little bit on the, on the angular card in the
11:55:02 sun, the most frame of WW, and maybe also need to make sure do a little bit on Strikeforce card, so that's that's for the current status, because if he if the, if they don't do the do the card we missing, all that sort of for these two documents for the
11:55:22 penalty, to be able to produce a pair of W's, but your initial status patterns are also W's and, and if you think that as hard it is just a related to to W mass, the initial state your your patterns are actually non relativistic there, they cannot be
11:55:53 cannot, cannot be valid as as a good approximation. Yeah, that's that's the thing so maybe we need to play with a little bit on the under tricky. A little bit tricky on the on the on the car that's that's for the UW, but in our next step of that cookie
11:56:00 eye on the tall we are considering and also, we start working on is to, to try to, to think about it this Stratford effect and we really want to do some kind of matching to make this better.
11:56:30 So, at that time, if we have done that it's not just that, no, kind of a tricky evenly to be 30 or play in on the on the on the kind of artificial card live you have the physical reasons review explained that that good interesting that's also what we
11:56:33 are, we have been doing this for the, but, you know, this all this.
11:56:37 In this presentation, all those processes are standard model ones, but if you, if you think about some new physics, study, for example that you want to produce them very highly Hague, which is about TV level a mask.
11:56:55 And then the district district will they will will be the final statements, is that that's.
11:57:02 That makes it I think makes it better is.
11:57:05 We don't have this kind of a tricky, playing with this with this card because that that really is far away from AWS.
11:57:15 So that's okay. I mean here, so sorry, just looking at the plot what was now the difference between the solid dashed lines.
11:57:25 Oh, you mean this dash. Okay, okay, sure, that you mean the solid, solid carbon and bash PR, for example.
11:57:33 Yeah, so here what I showed is the dotted curve and notice the new plasma madness annihilation.
11:57:41 A natural curve there the baby is only on the side of the curve is the sum over them.
11:57:48 Okay.
11:57:51 Okay. Yeah, you're on the show with we can see the clutter so we need to start over.
11:58:03 Okay, very good. I mean I'm asking this question all the time because we have some new plus b minus initiated new physics final states, without the who of course we just did the full matrix element.
11:58:11 And then we have two subgroups of
11:58:16 of matrix elements, which if we did it correctly, you know, fine tune cancellation in one of them would be described by the CWA. The other ones wouldn't right so if you would just apply the CWA in our scenario if you did everything correctly, you would
11:58:31 be completely off the predictions. And so I think it should be made clear really wet and we didn't test the way you tested this we just ran it and saw that this isn't perfect, but you didn't say okay when we which group is dominant and so on.
11:58:49 So I just think if one releases This one has to make people really aware of the validity of regions because otherwise you get fantasy numbers, I mean if we would just take for our process the web will just processes we will have cross sections which are
11:59:05 completely off from what we have done in the end, as predictions. So just a warning, because we understand that no but can you give it out and as soon as you enter it out as a normal PDF, people will just press the button and run it.
11:59:22 Right, right. So be careful and make sure that people are aware of these limitations. Right, right, right, because this I think it does this mean if you if you want to tell the story I need to tell the full story.
11:59:36 If you want to tell the story I need to tell the full story. So I previously discussed with.
11:59:51 Myth number of people we discuss discuss the gentleman that ew only theme please implement the ew only, not enough activity that's right now but that definitely will be next step, but even even that only.
11:59:54 Then they asked, I asked, because I may know, they know in our study we know some of the cost. Precisely dependent. So we asked them if you want to provide this the toolbox to the whole community.
12:00:07 How can you assume a processing independent card for them and then they answered us Oh no, as a developer, we produce the framework. And as the user is your responsibility is to
12:00:26 answer I completely disagree with this Yeah, so you should make your your car to bail of ourselves as he Oh, yeah. And I know we are playing a little bit different, no I that I add ons, and then we understand how to, how to provide the framework to the
12:00:42 whole community we need to. Yeah. Just Just a word of caution because I think fun would just use it for our process for example one would get completely wrong numbers, just because somehow.
12:00:51 If there's additional diagrams which are not taking into account by the CEWA.
12:00:57 Okay.
12:00:58 Okay, good. So, but I think it seems like we agree, at least on philosophy.
12:01:04 Yes, very very angry.
12:01:09 Really good so thank you young.
12:01:14 Thank you. On the other speakers, I guess it's probably time to close the meeting, I think we had very many interesting discussions.